Re: Developing environments used for kernel development
Hey Jeff, thanks for the reply, what I realy don't like in IDEs is tying building and editing at same tool. I'm a simple guy so I like to keep things simple. I never heard of anybody using IDE's for building C code in linux. I'm considering back to vim since emacs indenting is making me crazy Regards 2015-12-22 17:59 GMT-02:00 Jeff Haran <Jeff.Haran@citrix.com>:
Off list.
I use gvim, make, all the old style tools for kernel development and have been doing so for about 15 years now, but I am an old fart. Your boss needs to understand that a lot of these IDEs, though useful for user space development, don’t help much in kernel space. When the kernel goes bad, the IDE goes with it.
If he is uneducatable on this, you might want to check out this package called kdevelop. You can keep it running in one desktop to make him happy and then do the real work using the tried and true command line tools in another desktop.
Good luck,
Jeff Haran
From: kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org [mailto:kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org] On Behalf Of Daniel. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:28 AM To: kernelnewbies Subject: Developing environments used for kernel development
My boss came to my desk today raiging that I should use more productive tools for developing. Well I don't want to begin an editor war but, yes, I use emacs. I used to use vim before but the integration of emacs and gdb has caught my attention.
To be clear, as "more productive tools" he understands graphical eye candy tools. My argument to use an "simple editor plus makefiles" was, it just works and thats it. So before to downloading eclipse just to make my boss's eyes happy I've decided to make a little research.
What you guys are using today to develope kenrel code?
Best Regards,
- dhs
--
"Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
Well, no body except Lucas, but I also had never researched for this like I'm doing right now. I think that the vim is still the more used editor for C programming on Linux. Regards - dhs 2015-12-22 23:18 GMT-02:00 Daniel. <danielhilst@gmail.com>:
Hey Jeff, thanks for the reply, what I realy don't like in IDEs is tying building and editing at same tool. I'm a simple guy so I like to keep things simple. I never heard of anybody using IDE's for building C code in linux.
I'm considering back to vim since emacs indenting is making me crazy
Regards
2015-12-22 17:59 GMT-02:00 Jeff Haran <Jeff.Haran@citrix.com>:
Off list.
I use gvim, make, all the old style tools for kernel development and have been doing so for about 15 years now, but I am an old fart. Your boss needs to understand that a lot of these IDEs, though useful for user space development, don’t help much in kernel space. When the kernel goes bad, the IDE goes with it.
If he is uneducatable on this, you might want to check out this package called kdevelop. You can keep it running in one desktop to make him happy and then do the real work using the tried and true command line tools in another desktop.
Good luck,
Jeff Haran
From: kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org [mailto:kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org] On Behalf Of Daniel. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:28 AM To: kernelnewbies Subject: Developing environments used for kernel development
My boss came to my desk today raiging that I should use more productive tools for developing. Well I don't want to begin an editor war but, yes, I use emacs. I used to use vim before but the integration of emacs and gdb has caught my attention.
To be clear, as "more productive tools" he understands graphical eye candy tools. My argument to use an "simple editor plus makefiles" was, it just works and thats it. So before to downloading eclipse just to make my boss's eyes happy I've decided to make a little research.
What you guys are using today to develope kenrel code?
Best Regards,
- dhs
--
"Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Daniel. <danielhilst@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, no body except Lucas, but I also had never researched for this like I'm doing right now. I think that the vim is still the more used editor for C programming on Linux.
Emacs has really awkward key stroke combinations; I hate it. OTOH, VIM has simple key remapping if needed and has awesome plugin support; Plugins such as YouCompleteMe, NerdTree and TagBar turns vim into a blown up IDE, without loosing any of the VIM's core features. It's amazing for me, that, despite using VIM for about 8 years now, I still find new capabilities of VIM. Even though, this [1] blog is about Emacs, I totally agree with the author, that to learn Emacs or become comfortable with Emacs, one has to spend 10 years or more with it and and in my opinion this is equally true with any other technology. Also, watch some kool tricks to make vim run on asteroid by Damian Conway [2] [1] http://edward.oconnor.cx/2009/07/learn-emacs-in-ten-years [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHm36-na4-4 - Amit
Hi Amit I agree that it takes a lot of time to have domain on any tool, and yes, the key strokes are awkward but you can get used to it. I've spended a lot of time reading about elisp to get somewhere with emacs, I think in elisp being the big strenght and weakness of emacs. It's not eye friendly or even fast but you can do almost anything. I really can't think that emacs can be usable without an 20 lines .emacs, mine having more than 100. One thing that holds me at emacs is an nice plugin to access pastebin pastes. I use as my personal knowledge base, pasting, listing and deleting from pastebin, all inside emacs. I've also had to write a little function to download plugins that I use at first emacs run. I think that the Ctrl key strokes on emacs are faster to hand than the command/insert modes of vim, but this is just a matter of praticing. The window navigation on vim is a lot more convenient, at emacs we have just Ctrl+o to go to another window, while in vim you can switch using directional keys (hjkl). This can be customized, well everything can be customized, if not with plugins it can be done at source level (yay, freedom \o/), but who wants to maintain that lot of customizations? With vim you can redirect the input to a buffer vim `somecommand | vim -' with emacs you can, but is not that simple. I think that vim has better integration with shell commands through the % sign inside commands so you can parse and filter current buffer using default shell commands, in emacs you should keep with "interactive commands", they are fine and is easy to write new ones. I have no experience with vim plugin language but the syntax is a much more clear than elisp. The .vim is much smaller and more readable than .emacs files. The other thing that I is pissing me off in emacs is its auto-indentention. Its really intrusive and hard to turn it off. I've being using emacs for the last 3 years. Its really fun, elisp is really powerful, IMHO the main drawback of emacs is having an longer learning curve (because of elisp) and slower startup time. Vim has everything that a good editor needs, emacs has this a lot of lots of more, this make it a little fat. So we have 3 vim users, one emacs and one eclipse so far. Best Regards, - dhs 2015-12-23 12:45 GMT-02:00 amit mehta <gmate.amit@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Daniel. <danielhilst@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, no body except Lucas, but I also had never researched for this like I'm doing right now. I think that the vim is still the more used editor for C programming on Linux.
Emacs has really awkward key stroke combinations; I hate it. OTOH, VIM has simple key remapping if needed and has awesome plugin support; Plugins such as YouCompleteMe, NerdTree and TagBar turns vim into a blown up IDE, without loosing any of the VIM's core features. It's amazing for me, that, despite using VIM for about 8 years now, I still find new capabilities of VIM. Even though, this [1] blog is about Emacs, I totally agree with the author, that to learn Emacs or become comfortable with Emacs, one has to spend 10 years or more with it and and in my opinion this is equally true with any other technology.
Also, watch some kool tricks to make vim run on asteroid by Damian Conway [2]
[1] http://edward.oconnor.cx/2009/07/learn-emacs-in-ten-years [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHm36-na4-4
- Amit
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
2015-12-22 22:18 GMT-03:00 Daniel. <danielhilst@gmail.com>:
Hey Jeff, thanks for the reply, what I realy don't like in IDEs is tying building and editing at same tool. I'm a simple guy so I like to keep things simple. I never heard of anybody using IDE's for building C code in linux.
I'm considering back to vim since emacs indenting is making me crazy
Could you explain which indenting aspect is annoying you?
Regards
2015-12-22 17:59 GMT-02:00 Jeff Haran <Jeff.Haran@citrix.com>:
Off list.
I use gvim, make, all the old style tools for kernel development and have been doing so for about 15 years now, but I am an old fart. Your boss needs to understand that a lot of these IDEs, though useful for user space development, don’t help much in kernel space. When the kernel goes bad, the IDE goes with it.
If he is uneducatable on this, you might want to check out this package called kdevelop. You can keep it running in one desktop to make him happy and then do the real work using the tried and true command line tools in another desktop.
Good luck,
Jeff Haran
From: kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org [mailto:kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org] On Behalf Of Daniel. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:28 AM To: kernelnewbies Subject: Developing environments used for kernel development
My boss came to my desk today raiging that I should use more productive tools for developing. Well I don't want to begin an editor war but, yes, I use emacs. I used to use vim before but the integration of emacs and gdb has caught my attention.
To be clear, as "more productive tools" he understands graphical eye candy tools. My argument to use an "simple editor plus makefiles" was, it just works and thats it. So before to downloading eclipse just to make my boss's eyes happy I've decided to make a little research.
What you guys are using today to develope kenrel code?
Best Regards,
- dhs
--
"Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
_______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org http://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
-- Regards, Geyslan G. Bem hackingbits.com
Its autoindentation is a little intrusive, but at the coding style at kernel.org there is some code that fix that :) 2016-01-14 17:19 GMT-02:00 Geyslan G. Bem <geyslan@gmail.com>:
2015-12-22 22:18 GMT-03:00 Daniel. <danielhilst@gmail.com>:
Hey Jeff, thanks for the reply, what I realy don't like in IDEs is tying building and editing at same tool. I'm a simple guy so I like to keep things simple. I never heard of anybody using IDE's for building C code in linux.
I'm considering back to vim since emacs indenting is making me crazy
Could you explain which indenting aspect is annoying you?
Regards
2015-12-22 17:59 GMT-02:00 Jeff Haran <Jeff.Haran@citrix.com>:
Off list.
I use gvim, make, all the old style tools for kernel development and
have
been doing so for about 15 years now, but I am an old fart. Your boss needs to understand that a lot of these IDEs, though useful for user space development, don’t help much in kernel space. When the kernel goes bad, the IDE goes with it.
If he is uneducatable on this, you might want to check out this package called kdevelop. You can keep it running in one desktop to make him happy and then do the real work using the tried and true command line tools in another desktop.
Good luck,
Jeff Haran
From: kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org [mailto:kernelnewbies-bounces@kernelnewbies.org] On Behalf Of Daniel. Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:28 AM To: kernelnewbies Subject: Developing environments used for kernel development
My boss came to my desk today raiging that I should use more productive tools for developing. Well I don't want to begin an editor war but,
yes, I
use emacs. I used to use vim before but the integration of emacs and gdb has caught my attention.
To be clear, as "more productive tools" he understands graphical eye candy tools. My argument to use an "simple editor plus makefiles" was, it just works and thats it. So before to downloading eclipse just to make my boss's eyes happy I've decided to make a little research.
What you guys are using today to develope kenrel code?
Best Regards,
- dhs
--
"Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
-- "Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda Master
_______________________________________________ Kernelnewbies mailing list Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org http://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
-- Regards,
Geyslan G. Bem hackingbits.com
-- *"Do or do not. There is no try"* *Yoda Master*
participants (3)
-
amit mehta -
Daniel. -
Geyslan G. Bem