Regarding Linux kernel vs Android
Hi... I tried searching but no luck. Can you please suggest how Linux kernel was modified and became Android?! Just high level ideas are enough. PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. Please suggest Best regards Sekar
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 10:15:39PM +0530, inventsekar wrote:
Hi...
I tried searching but no luck. Can you please suggest how Linux kernel was modified and became Android?!
It did not. Android devices use the Linux kernel, with only a very tiny set of patches on top of it, just like any other embedded Linux device. You can see the latest Android kernel trees on the Android Open Source project site, just search for them. hope this helps, greg k-h
I doesn't matter that much when you can't root the devices... On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 05:52:38PM +0100, Greg KH wrote:
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 10:15:39PM +0530, inventsekar wrote:
Hi...
I tried searching but no luck. Can you please suggest how Linux kernel was modified and became Android?!
It did not.
Android devices use the Linux kernel, with only a very tiny set of patches on top of it, just like any other embedded Linux device. You can see the latest Android kernel trees on the Android Open Source project site, just search for them.
hope this helps,
greg k-h
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On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:55:45AM -0500, Ruben Safir wrote:
I doesn't matter that much when you can't root the devices...
What do you mean, it's trivial to root almost any shipping Android device today given the fact that they do not run up-to-date kernel versions :) You aren't trying hard enough... greg k-h
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said:
PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. Please suggest
The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your message was posted" confirmation. Go here: https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't have it, it's in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy). The gory details: A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this: 1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually by the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was one of Gmail's so it tacked on: Message-id: <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=Vc-pw@mail.gmail.com> The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and (b) remains the same across the lifetime of the message. 2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly (the usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a mailing list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in the gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4) 3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this Message-ID before?" Works great, except.... When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which means that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says "Hey, I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you don't see that one either. Whoops. And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google grief about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for reasons only they understand(*) To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the list gets auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some AI in there has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll remember the message-ID, but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy anyhow even though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this isn't a settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this - so I have some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't. Gaah. ;) (*) Probably related to the way they monetize things. As Upton SInclair wrote a century ago: "It is impossible to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it".
Sure, thanks Valdis.. I will configure that delivery confirmation.
As Upton SInclair wrote a century ago: "It is impossible to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it".
Perfect, Very good line.. Regarding the first question, thanks Greg, Ruben. And I was searching further and got some learnings here... Sharing link here, so others can learn as well. https://android.jlelse.eu/android-internals-for- developers-part-i-982a4409f4b5 Best regards Sekar On Jan 17, 2018 5:24 AM, <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote: On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said:
PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. Please suggest
The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your message was posted" confirmation. Go here: https://lists.kernelnewbies.or g/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't have it, it's in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy). The gory details: A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this: 1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually by the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was one of Gmail's so it tacked on: Message-id: <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=Vc-pw@mail. gmail.com> The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and (b) remains the same across the lifetime of the message. 2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly (the usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a mailing list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in the gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4) 3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this Message-ID before?" Works great, except.... When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which means that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says "Hey, I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you don't see that one either. Whoops. And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google grief about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for reasons only they understand(*) To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the list gets auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some AI in there has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll remember the message-ID, but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy anyhow even though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this isn't a settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this - so I have some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't. Gaah. ;) (*) Probably related to the way they monetize things. As Upton SInclair wrote a century ago: "It is impossible to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it".
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 04:24:41PM -0500, valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said:
PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. Please suggest
I am using gmail but never notice the behaviors you stated. Thanks for your information. See below:
The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your message was posted" confirmation. Go here: https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't have it, it's in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy).
The gory details:
A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this:
1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually by the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was one of Gmail's so it tacked on:
Message-id: <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=Vc-pw@mail.gmail.com>
The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and (b) remains the same across the lifetime of the message.
2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly (the usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a mailing list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in the gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4)
3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this Message-ID before?"
Works great, except....
When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which means that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says "Hey, I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you don't see that one either. Whoops.
By "gets munched" you mean "get deleted", right? But why would the other one gets deleted if Gmail suppress the duplicate message? Is this your configuration fault?
And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google grief about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for reasons only they understand(*)
To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the list gets auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some AI in there has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll remember the message-ID, but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy anyhow even though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this isn't a settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this - so I have some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't.
Hmm... I didn't noticed which list works and which not yet (I was not aware of the situation where duplicate message with same Message-ID get suppressed by Gmail previously). Is kernel newbie affected, or any other lists? Yubin
Gaah. ;)
(*) Probably related to the way they monetize things. As Upton SInclair wrote a century ago: "It is impossible to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on him not understanding it".
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:11:45PM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 04:24:41PM -0500, valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said:
PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck. Please suggest
I am using gmail but never notice the behaviors you stated. Thanks for your information. See below:
The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your message was posted" confirmation. Go here: https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't have it, it's in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy).
The gory details:
A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this:
1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually by the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was one of Gmail's so it tacked on:
Message-id: <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=Vc-pw@mail.gmail.com>
The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and (b) remains the same across the lifetime of the message.
2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly (the usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a mailing list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in the gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4)
3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this Message-ID before?"
Works great, except....
When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which means that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says "Hey, I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you don't see that one either. Whoops.
By "gets munched" you mean "get deleted", right? But why would the other one gets deleted if Gmail suppress the duplicate message? Is this your configuration fault?
And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google grief about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for reasons only they understand(*)
To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the list gets auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some AI in there has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll remember the message-ID, but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy anyhow even though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this isn't a settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this - so I have some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't.
Hmm... I didn't noticed which list works and which not yet (I was not aware of the situation where duplicate message with same Message-ID get suppressed by Gmail previously). Is kernel newbie affected, or any other lists?
Oh now I observe the behavior on std-discussion (hosted on isocpp.org). Gmail seems to automatically delete mails from the mailing list server if I Cc/Bcc myself a copy (if the server has ever sent me a copy, which I am not sure). But I still get a copy, and things still work smoothly. Yubin
participants (5)
-
Greg KH -
inventsekar -
Ruben Safir -
valdis.kletnieks＠vt.edu -
Yubin Ruan