<div dir="ltr"><p>----> a) It's likely that it's an adopted version of the linux kernel so it's likely also old</p><p>Are you sure that you gave a fast read to this page ? ---> <a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/</a></p><p>They say :<br></p><p>You are free to use any Linux distribution you like, or even BSDs or any of
its derivatives. But then you should know the game. Especially tool
versions should be recent, as installed on the listed distributions below.</p>
<p>We are confident that the snapshot works on the following distributions:</p>
<ul><li>Debian 11 or later</li><li>Ubuntu 22.04 or later</li></ul><div>so,it seems that they found a way to use an updated linux version. Unfortunately they don't talk about FreeBSD. It deserves more research,because this is what I'm interested in.<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 4:58 AM Richard <<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
On 10.12.23 01:02, Mario Marietto wrote:<br>
> Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. Actually we are trying to <br>
> boot FreeBSD with xen on our arm 32 Chromebook. But if it fails we could <br>
> try L4Linux. Yes,they say that's similar to xen,but with some important <br>
> differences that I haven't read and understood yet. <br>
<br>
This is pure speculation because I don't have time to dig deeper into <br>
L4Linux but I think the whole solution will be worse than Xen. When <br>
Linux is really run as a process this means:<br>
<br>
a) It's likely that it's an adopted version of the linux kernel so it's <br>
likely also old<br>
<br>
b) A process is a strictly defined thing with a clearly defined API that <br>
is actually designed to do very different things, the things an OS <br>
Kernel does might fit very bad into that meaning that a lot of the <br>
behaviour might have to use workaround and might be quite imperformant. <br>
For example the linux kernel is multithreaded and different kernel <br>
threads can talk to each other quite easily, can they do the same on L4? <br>
Might be difficult.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Thanks for your <br>
> invitation to read. Yes,I'm very interested in all the virtualization <br>
> stuff all around,but I'm not sure that reading a complicated book will <br>
> help me. <br>
<br>
I'm actually sure about that and the answer is no. But "Modern Operating <br>
Systems" is no complicated book, it's a very easy to read introduction <br>
for beginners, usually it's read by undergraduate students that have <br>
never programmed before.<br>
<br>
> My training at the college has been totally different,I'm a <br>
> psychologist. Do you think that one can be able to learn by himself how <br>
> an operating system works by reading and studying a book found on the <br>
> Internet,without the support of a teacher ? <br>
<br>
Yes, given enough motivation and work ethic. I've never heard even one <br>
university course on linux kernel programming, my university degree was <br>
mostly about math<br>
<br>
> Do you think that we can remove <br>
> colleges from the face of the earth ?<br>
<br>
No, because lots of people don't have enough motivation, work ethic or <br>
structure, actually I think the benefit of colleges / universities is <br>
not really the subject but teaching people the skills to actually <br>
acquire knowledge themselves and abstract thinking.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Richard<br>
> <br>
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 8:01 PM Richard <<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a> <br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I looked at this,<br>
> <br>
> L4 is a family of Microkernels:<br>
> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family</a>><br>
> <br>
> L4Re is a project to let other operating system kernels run as<br>
> processes<br>
> on top of a L4 Kernel. But they are still monolithic kernels even when<br>
> you run them on top of another kernel. Actually all this is similar<br>
> to Xen.<br>
> <br>
> Since you are interested in those things I would really recommend<br>
> reading one of the textbooks. "Modern Operating Systems" by Tanenbaum<br>
> even has a chapter on exactly this it's called "Are hypervisors<br>
> microkernels done right?"<br>
> <br>
> -- Richard<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 09.12.23 14:24, Mario Marietto wrote:<br>
> > ---> Neither FreeBSD nor Linux has a microkernel<br>
> ><br>
> > Can you give a look here ?<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/</a>><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/</a>>><br>
> ><br>
> > where it says :<br>
> ><br>
> > "You are free to use any Linux distribution you like, or even<br>
> BSDs or<br>
> > any of its derivatives"<br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mario Marietto<br>
> <<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>>>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Ok but then what it means what I read below (taken from<br>
> wikipedia) :<br>
> ><br>
> > ^L4 Linux also allows setting up a virtualized<br>
> > <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization</a>>> environment vaguely<br>
> > similar to Xen <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen</a>>> or Kernel-bas<br>
> > <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine</a>>><br>
> > ed Virtual Machine<br>
> > <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine</a><br>
> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine</a>>> (KVM),<br>
> > but a few significant differences exist^// between the intent<br>
> of Xen<br>
> > and L^4 Linux.<br>
> ><br>
> > Il ven 8 dic 2023, 12:13 Richard<br>
> <<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:richard_siegfried@systemli.org" target="_blank">richard_siegfried@systemli.org</a>>>> ha scritto:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On 08.12.23 09:11, Mario Marietto wrote:<br>
> > > With l4linux (or redox) can I boot and run 2 linux distros<br>
> > using the<br>
> > > same kernel ? I ask because the developers talk about<br>
> > virtualization and<br>
> > > because CoLinux allows us to boot Linux while using<br>
> Windows<br>
> > > What I'm very interested to achieve is to run Linux as a<br>
> > process under<br>
> > > FreeBSD or vice versa,using the best of those two<br>
> microkernels.<br>
> ><br>
> > Neither FreeBSD nor Linux has a microkernel. From all your<br>
> > questions I<br>
> > think it would be helpful to read up on some Operating System<br>
> > Theory<br>
> > before you go on. I can recommend "Operating Systems -<br>
> Three Easy<br>
> > Pieces"<br>
> > <br>
> (<a href="https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf</a> <<a href="https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf</a>> <<a href="https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf</a> <<a href="https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf</a>>><br>
> > )<br>
> ><br>
> > It's almost as good as the Tanenbaum Classic, but free.<br>
> ><br>
> > -- Richard<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 2:15 AM <<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a>>><br>
> > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim.cromie@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.cromie@gmail.com</a>>>>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 1:02 PM Mario Marietto<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>>><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>>>>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > What is this ?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > <a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a>><br>
> > <br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a>>><br>
> > ><br>
> > <br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a>><br>
> > <br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a><br>
> <<a href="https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/</a>>>><br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Thats a micro-kernel, sort of like GNU Hurd.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > theres also<br>
> > ><br>
> <a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a><br>
> <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a><br>
> <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a>>><br>
> > > <br>
> <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a><br>
> <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a>><br>
> > <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a><br>
> <<a href="https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html</a>>>><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > --<br>
> > > Mario.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Mario.<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Kernelnewbies mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org" target="_blank">Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org" target="_blank">Kernelnewbies@kernelnewbies.org</a>><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies</a><br>
> <<a href="https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies</a>><br>
> <br>
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> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Mario.<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">Mario.<br></div>