Kernelnewbies Digest, Vol 107, Issue 1

Thu Oct 3 17:43:55 EDT 2019

Hello Guys, thanks for you answers

Now I have a clearer idea of the mathematics in the kernel and I
understand the views expressed, for now I will investigate more in the
memory subsystem
very thank you.

El jue., 3 oct. 2019 a las 11:00, <kernelnewbies-request at kernelnewbies.org>
escribió:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>       subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
>    2. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>       subsystem? (Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks)
>    3. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>       subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
>    4. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>       subsystem? (Greg KH)
>    5. Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>       subsystem? (Ruben Safir)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400
> From: Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com>
> To: kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>         subsystem?
> Message-ID: <919b3d12-5d7e-73f1-d53f-b6a8463bf50b at mrbrklyn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 9/30/19 1:06 AM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> > On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:48:43 -0500, CRISTIAN ANDRES VARGAS GONZALEZ said:
> >
> >> Hello good morning, to be developed from the kernel do I need to have
> good
> >> math bases? I want to help in the ram memory subsystem and I have that
> >> doubt thank you.
> > Depends what you mean by "strong math basics".  You'll *definitely* need
> to
> > understand decimal/hexadecimal/binary/octal and how to convert between
> > them. Understanding algebra is useful.
> >
> > If you've had some intro to complexity theory so you understand why an
> O(N^2)
> > algorithm is usually worse than one that's O(N log N), that helps. Also,
> > knowing enough computing theory to understand what a finite state
> machine is,
> > and why to use one, and how to write code to implement one, is useful.
> >
> > You *probably* don't need calculus or deep number theory or a lot of
> other
> > pure math.
>
>
> I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
> degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
>
> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
>
> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> computational mathmatics.
>
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 23:35:52 -0400
> From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" <valdis.kletnieks at vt.edu>
> To: Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com>
> Cc: kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>         subsystem?
> Message-ID: <31773.1570073752 at turing-police>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400, Ruben Safir said:
>
> > I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
> > degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
>
> The question was specific to *kernel* development.
>
> Look around.  Does Linus have a PhD?  How many people at the last Kernel
> Plumber's
> or Kernel Summit have PhDs?
>
> I'm willing to bet that there's very few PhD's in CS listed in
> MAINTAINERS.  And
> those that are, are probably coincidental...
>
> > If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
> > for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
> >
> > Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> > computational mathmatics.
>
> If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's
> probably something
> wrong with your overall design.
>
> Just sayin'.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 23:42:04 -0400
> From: Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com>
> To: kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>         subsystem?
> Message-ID: <0a9418d0-bef3-8631-4c18-b5a31fdd1129 at mrbrklyn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 10/2/19 11:35 PM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> > On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 21:47:42 -0400, Ruben Safir said:
> >
> >> I've heard this for years and when I went back for my PhD and Masters
> >> degree in comp sci, I found out, low and behold, this is just not true.
> >
> > The question was specific to *kernel* development.
>
> Actually yes
>
>
> >
> > Look around.  Does Linus have a PhD?  How many people at the last Kernel
> Plumber's
> > or Kernel Summit have PhDs?
> >
>
> Linus has a Masters in Comp Sci, not that he is the greatest engineer ever.
>
> > I'm willing to bet that there's very few PhD's in CS listed in
> MAINTAINERS.  And
> > those that are, are probably coincidental...
> >
>
> I can't testify to that, but there are ton of Master Degree coders and a
> lot of mathamaticians.
>
> General plumbing is not needed, but predictive trees, and crypto
> certainly do and some hardware problems need calc, or even integration.
>
> The harder the job, the more math is needed.
>
> >> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious math
> >> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
> >>
> >> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> >> computational mathmatics.
> >
> > If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's
> probably something
> > wrong with your overall design.
> >
>
> Maybe, but I don't think so.  And the hardware is getting more exotic.
>
> > Just sayin'.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Kernelnewbies mailing list
> > Kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> > https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
> >
>
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 09:00:58 +0200
> From: Greg KH <greg at kroah.com>
> To: Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com>
> Cc: kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>         subsystem?
> Message-ID: <20191003070058.GA1814133 at kroah.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 11:42:04PM -0400, Ruben Safir wrote:
> > On 10/2/19 11:35 PM, Valdis Kl?tnieks wrote:
> > >> If you hope to do anything that is not elementry, you need serious
> math
> > >> for the algorithms, not to mention to complete the jobs being done.
> > >>
> > >> Knowing math is the real key to unlocking to potential of the power of
> > >> computational mathmatics.
> > >
> > > If you're doing that sort of mathematics *inside the kernel*, there's
> probably something
> > > wrong with your overall design.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe, but I don't think so.  And the hardware is getting more exotic.
>
> "more complex" does not mean "needs more math.  Look at the new USB4
> spec, and the patches posted to start adding support for that to the
> kernel.  No "math" in there at all other than very simple stuff.
>
> And no one can say that USB for is not "serious", so I agree with
> Vladis, a deep mathmatical background is not needed for almost all of
> the kernel.  It's just simple C code, nothing to be afraid of.
>
> greg k-h
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 06:55:50 -0400
> From: Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com>
> To: kernelnewbies at kernelnewbies.org
> Subject: Re: Do I need strong mathematical bases to work in the memory
>         subsystem?
> Message-ID: <7374125a-646f-7057-347b-f17ef51e9865 at mrbrklyn.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On 10/3/19 3:00 AM, Greg KH wrote:
> > USB4
> > spec, and the patches posted to start adding support for that to the
> > kernel.  No "math" in there at all other than very simple stuff.
> >
> > And no one can say that USB for is not "serious", so I agree with
> > Vladis, a deep mathmatical background is not needed for almost all of
> > the kernel.  It's just simple C code, nothing to be afraid of.
>
> I wouldn't call that C code basic.  Regardless, showing an example of a
> driver that doesn't need math, and it might if you understood the high
> level math, and your not aware of it, but predictive branching would
> need it.  You can not calculate simple interest efficiently without
> calculus.  This repeadely ends up being an issue of "if I don't know it,
> I don't need it", which is wrong.  More math helps you every time.  Math
> is advanced logic.  I can't tell you how many times I see folks brute
> force their way to solutions that they should be using integration.
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Kernelnewbies Digest, Vol 107, Issue 1
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